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Imke Offline



Posts: 1

Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:32 am
#11 RE: KLANG hours 22 to 24 reply

In a conversation with Angelin Preljocaj on May 1st, 2007, Stockhausen made the following comment on paradise:
"Ich bin davon überzeugt, daß dieses Leben die Vorbereitung auf ein sehr viel geistigeres, sehr viel höher entwickeltes Leben ist. Und das Paradies ist ein Zustand, ist ein Ort, wo man erst richtig die ganze Schönheit und Vielfalt der Schöpfung sehen und in jeder Weise wahrnehmen kann. Wir wissen fast nichts über den Kosmos, im Paradies aber sehen wir das Ganze. Das heißt, es gibt kein Ende, es kann kein Ende geben. Der Geist entwickelt sich ständig weiter, er entwickelt sich zu einem umfassenderen Bewußtsein, zu umfassenderer Erkenntnis über die Beziehungen zwischen allem, was ist. Alles ist mit allem verbunden. [...] Ich möchte ins Paradies. Auf jeden Fall. Aber das dauert und dauert und dauert..." (Karlheinz Stockhausen, Texte zur Musik vol. 15, Kürten 2014, p. 331 [coming soon]).
In my opinion, Stockhausen did not want to continue KLANG, he wanted to finish with PARADIES.

Adorján Offline



Posts: 57

Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:03 pm
#12 RE: KLANG hours 22 to 24 reply

This would point to a certain life-wearyness. I remember that Maria Luckas told me something similar when I asked her about the circumstances of Stockhausen's death. He had lung problems and did not want to spend a time at the sea, proposed by his doctor, no discussion about that. So she said that maybe, with regard to all that fighting, he had enough.

I asked Leopoldo Siano who really should know. Of course, he did not want to tell all because his book on KLANG will be published soon but he said that there are no sketches explicitly devoted to the hours 22-24.

Christian Offline



Posts: 124

Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:37 am
#13 RE: KLANG hours 22 to 24 reply

Thanks, dear Imke, for that quotation - I already know it and it's one of my favourite ones by KS for it fills my heart with joy and hope. I'm really looking forward to meet Stockhausen again, wherever it might be, whether in Jerusem, Havona or Paradise... and when I will meet him one of my first questions will be: "If you would have composed the hours 22 to 24 of KLANG - whicht titles would they have???" :-)

Leopoldo Offline



Posts: 3

Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:15 am
#14 KLANG / Letters to Mary Bauermeister reply

I am pleased to announce, that my book on KLANG will finally appear next week (the publication was planned for the September 2013, nevertheless there were some "technical" problems with the Vienna publishing house “Der Apfel” , therefore the big delay). In this book, you will find some answers to important questions about the genesis of Stockhausen's last unfineshed cycle and not realized “Hours”. I must undeline, that this book is not only a book on KLANG, but a general consideration of Stockhausen in toto as figure of Western culture.
I write my first post in this Stockhausen-Forum, in order to call the attention of all people interested in Stockhausen's music on another topic:
In 2011 I began to work to the edition of Stockhausen's letters to Mary Bauermeister. Mary Bauermeister owns more than 600 Stockhausen's letters. They are not just letters of a "lover", but letters between two great visionary artists. (Actually, we have only the letters of Stockhausen, while Mary Bauermeister's as well numerous letters are in a safe in Kürten, and they are not accessible for scholars; the reasons for the inaccessibility are very unclear).
Stockhausen's letters to Mary Bauermeister are very important documents for history of music and art (in general of culture) of the 20th century. For instance, many of them contains precious informations about the genesis of compositions, about the development of musical ideas, about performance practice, encounters with personalities of arts and cultures etc. Besides that, they also show a deep human side of Karlheinz Stockhausen. Most part of the letters are quite long, and one can say they have also a “literary” value. In any case, they are a extremely interesting and touching reading.
I scanned and studied carefully all these letters, then together with a colleague I began the transcription of them. I had found a notable German publisher and also the financial support (the German Foundation NRW had a great interest to support the project). Nevertheless, for the publication of these Stockhausen's letters the permission of the Stockhausen's Foundation was needed. Unfortunately, the Stockhausen-Stiftung refused to give us the permission, with the motivation that the publication of these "too private" letters would be against Stockhaseun's will (in order to say that, one should firstly read these letters, right??).
It's really a pity that people must wait for about 70-100 years before such treasure is published.
Leopoldo Siano

Christian Offline



Posts: 124

Sat Apr 26, 2014 9:03 am
#15 RE: KLANG / Letters to Mary Bauermeister reply

Caro Leopoldo, can you give us the biographical details so that we can order you book? I'm very curious...

Leopoldo Offline



Posts: 3

Sat Apr 26, 2014 9:44 pm
#16 RE: KLANG / Letters to Mary Bauermeister reply

Lieber Christian, with pleasure:

Leopoldo Siano, Karlheinz Stockhausens letzter Kompositionszyklus 'Klang. Die 24 Stunden des Tages', = Signale aus Köln. Beiträge zur Musik der Zeit, Band 19, Wien 2013.

Joe Offline



Posts: 103

Sun Apr 27, 2014 12:12 am
#17 RE: KLANG / Letters to Mary Bauermeister reply

I'm looking forward to reading it, and I'm also wondering what the black market price is for those letters! It's truly a shame that all that work you did was embargoed.

Ulrich Offline



Posts: 157

Sun Apr 27, 2014 12:27 pm
#18 RE: KLANG / Letters to Mary Bauermeister reply

As to the letters: I must be cautious, because I do not know the letters. But in general it really is a pity! I can only hope that there will be a chance that the Kürten ladies will rethink their decision! Also in the light of the fact, that Stockhausen himself did not hesitate to compose very very private lines in STIMMUNG and later refused to replace them by more general literary texts!!
At least good news as to Leopoldo's book - congratulations!!

Adorján Offline



Posts: 57

Sun Apr 27, 2014 2:52 pm
#19 RE: KLANG / Letters to Mary Bauermeister reply

Such „privatistic“ decisions are always a catastrophe. Let us think of the finacée of the great German poet Georg Büchner, Minna Jaeglé, who refused to publish the letters of Büchner to her and destroyed them before her death. What a loss for the world! Nobody is interested in „private“ things; what readers want to know are Büchner’s remarks about his philosophy, his political thinking and actions etc., that is: everything associated with his work. The same with Stockhausen. A very good compromise could be a commission to gather the letters, to transcript them, to comment them as long as many people are living, and to prepare a ready-for-press edition which would appear at a date where private considerations are no more in the foreground (10 years, 20 years?). This would have the advantage that no letter would be lost, comments would take into account time-witnesses, and one would not have to wait 70 years due to law.

Christian Offline



Posts: 124

Sun Apr 27, 2014 3:31 pm
#20 RE: KLANG / Letters to Mary Bauermeister reply

I'm of course always on the side of research and therefore for the possibility to open as much "closed" material as possible. But perhaps in this case the Stockhausen Stiftung (i.e. Kathinka and Suzanne) have reacted in this manner because they're still shocked by Mary Bauermeister's book what would explain their decision....

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I feel that it could be useful to have a discussion-forum on the music of Stockhausen. There are so many people from all over the world, young and old, learned and eager to get into contact with this musical world: musicologists, composers, musicians, music lovers; people who plan concerts - who write books or have to give lectures and so on. So there should be much stuff, many ideas that we can share. And when we have open questions, there may be people who studied just that and could give a hint or a stimulus. A problem might be the English language, but i feel that is the only possibility that many people who are interested can participate. And we can exercise tolerance to mistakes! Thomas Ulrich
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