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This topic has 34 replies
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Robin Maconie Offline

Posts: 67

Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:19 pm
#31 RE: MITTWOCH - review reply

"Of course"? Anything more vacuous than Christian's last post would be hard to imagine. (And "Doomsday" simply means "doom" or ultimate destiny.)The previous post proves beyond a peradventure that the role of the Urantia cult, even as an insurance policy for eternity, explains nothing about Stockhausen's music or any music of any kind; it is so distant from reality as not even to be tangential to Stockhausen's musical thought (a tangent by definition having contact with it at least at a single point). The saddest thing in my life was having to watch the slow descent of a great and compelling intelligence into limbo in the awful realization that, for all his late affirmations of the virtues (eg in TURIN), after death the departed soul would find no rest. A message starkly underlined in HIMMELS-TÜR, which transforms Varese's busy landscape of IONISATION into the nuclear-ionised wasteland of a Chernobyl. Stockhausen was convinced, as I see it, that the world would end in a nuclear holocaust, and was totally confounded by Glasnost to a point where, like Carl Sagan in the USA, he took refuge in a fantasy of time travel and escape. It may say something about a particular kind of fatalist central European mindset in which he was raised as a child - a devotion to relentless and ultimately meaningless self-sacrifice. I may be missing the point here. But until references to the Urantia cosmos can be shown to have advanced his musical journey, allusions to UVERSA and ORVONTON are empty rhetoric having no place in a forum devoted to music. They amount to no more than optional flavours in the slowly revolving eternal pizza of the afterlife. In other words, Pie in the Sky.

Christian Offline

Posts: 123

Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:51 pm
#32 RE: MITTWOCH - review reply

Sorry, Robin, but your arrogance sucks.
I love every single statement of Stockhausen about the cosmic destiny of men, even the ones about Sirius. As I said in another posting, they fill my heart with joy and hope. Just like Carl Sagan's "Contact" does. I guess you won't understand this - just as you, I guess, are not able to understand Stockhausen's soul. You may be a brillant intellectual to analyze his music - but perhaps that's all.

Robin Maconie Offline

Posts: 67

Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:42 pm
#33 RE: MITTWOCH - review reply

Ah, soul.

Adorján Offline

Posts: 57

Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:46 pm
#34 RE: MITTWOCH - review reply

When I read these „discussions“ which turn into insults, I want to make a statement just to sharpen the aim of this forum.

What does it mean to understand music? And I think we all have the same opinion: The music is no. 1 and everything else comes after music. If we would not have a high opinion of Stockhausen's music, all talk about Orvonton and Jerusem would be absolutely senseless.

I want to ask Christian: Please show me the necessity to know anything about e. g. Jerusem (according to Urantia book) to understand the MUSIC piece written by Stockhausen with the same title? That means: Please show me any connection between the musical structure and the name! Except that Jerusem is a place high in the order of the universe and Stockhausen uses a high tenor.

Ulrich Offline

Posts: 151

Thu Mar 13, 2014 3:32 pm
#35 RE: MITTWOCH - review reply

Sorry when I am going to moralize a bit (I know it is the most common fault of my profession!) -but I think: The main prerequisite of a discussion like this in this forum is the possibility that I am not right with my opinions, am willing to change my mind in case I am convinced by other arguments.And that could be in the future, even if now I cannot imagine.Thus respect is a good idea.
A very important aspect of many discussions here is the question: Which role should play understanding in dealing with music, and what could understanding be here? Therefore I open another thread - for that has nothing to do with MITTWOCH, that was the original item here.

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I feel that it could be useful to have a discussion-forum on the music of Stockhausen. There are so many people from all over the world, young and old, learned and eager to get into contact with this musical world: musicologists, composers, musicians, music lovers; people who plan concerts - who write books or have to give lectures and so on. So there should be much stuff, many ideas that we can share. And when we have open questions, there may be people who studied just that and could give a hint or a stimulus. A problem might be the English language, but i feel that is the only possibility that many people who are interested can participate. And we can exercise tolerance to mistakes! Thomas Ulrich
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