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Ulrich Offline



Posts: 157

Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:28 pm
SONNTAG and the theme of union reply

A short question: SONNTAG from LIGHT has the theme: mystical union of Michael and Eve. In the cycle we meet unions of their names (MICHEVA). But is there any example of a union of the names of Michael and Lucifer?

Robin Maconie Offline



Posts: 67

Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:27 pm
#2 RE: SONNTAG and the theme of union reply

Surely they are united in the composer himself.

Jerry Offline



Posts: 146

Wed Mar 05, 2014 8:17 am
#3 RE: SONNTAG and the theme of union reply

Their *names*??!

Ulrich Offline



Posts: 157

Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:03 am
#4 RE: SONNTAG and the theme of union reply

Like MICHael and EVA results in MICHEVA; or LUzifer and eVA = LUFA.

Robin Maconie Offline



Posts: 67

Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:23 pm
#5 RE: SONNTAG and the theme of union reply

Oh, the names. Well, MI-KA-EL already unites Michael, Karlheinz, and Lucifer.

Robin Maconie Offline



Posts: 67

Wed Mar 05, 2014 8:52 pm
#6 RE: SONNTAG and the theme of union reply

FWIW: Name permutation may have started with Wagner, but another exponent was Kurt Weill. David Drew's paper "Royal Palace and its Critics" (91-119 in Brook and Rosen eds, "Words on Music: Essays in Honor of Andrew Porter" NY: Pendragon 2002) makes Weill's opera Royal Palace (libretto: Yvan Goll) seem very close to Stockhausen in a number of ways. Of Act 3 Drew writes: "Tomorrow's Inamorato (a male character)is hungry - but only for Dejunira. He lists her charms and codes them by color, as if they might alchemically become edible - blue, red and green, pink, violet and orange, black and white." (102) Later, "Tomorrow permutates the four syllables of of Dejanira's name. Spellbound, his two rivals join in: Janirade, Rejedina, Nirajade"(103). Act 4 anticipates aspects of Sirius, Montag and Donnerstag aus LICHT: "Lake Chorus and Solo Song. Three Suitors. Four-fold message of the skies, the winds, the seasons, and the elements. Yesterday's Lover offers 'The Heaven of our Nights'. There is a 'Ballet - The Signs of the Zodiac' which includes a shadow play."

Ulrich Offline



Posts: 157

Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:27 pm
#7 RE: SONNTAG and the theme of union reply

MI-KA-EL: Originally I understood that from the Hebrew pronunciation of the name - but, Robin, your interpretation KA = Karlheinz probably may be true. But where is Lucifer here?

Robin Maconie Offline



Posts: 67

Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:13 pm
#8 RE: SONNTAG and the theme of union reply

EL for Lucifer, of course. Not Hebrew pronunciation, just a pictogram. And by the way, the name LUZIFER is in two parts, LU and ZIFFER (cipher / number) though the latter part of his name is represented as the furious act of counting rather than as a name. Likewise EVA is part of the unspoken duo EVA/ANGELIUM. There are also clues in the rather obvious symbol combinations which suggest gender relations, which describe Luzifer in one sense as an easy target (or military symbol), and in another sense as an ass Toward the end, Stockhausen signed himself "KA" though I suspect the idea came to him from attending a performance of Robert Wilson's "Ka Mountain and Guardenia Terrace" at the Shiraz Festival, Iran, in 1972. (Other Planets, 423-24)

Robin Maconie Offline



Posts: 67

Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:15 pm
#9 RE: SONNTAG and the theme of union reply

EDIT: EL for Lucifer, of course. Not Hebrew pronunciation, just a pictogram. And by the way, the name LUZIFER is in two parts, LU and ZIFFER (cipher / number) though the latter part of his name is represented as the furious act of counting rather than as a name. Likewise EVA is part of the unspoken duo EVA/ANGELIUM. There are also clues in the rather obvious symbol combinations which suggest gender relations, which describe Luzifer in one sense as an easy target (or military symbol), and in another sense as an asshole. Toward the end, Stockhausen signed himself "KA" though I suspect the idea came to him from attending a performance of Robert Wilson's "Ka Mountain and Guardenia Terrace" at the Shiraz Festival, Iran, in 1972. (Other Planets, 423-24)

Jerry Offline



Posts: 146

Sat Mar 08, 2014 12:46 am
#10 RE: SONNTAG and the theme of union reply

Aha! And then, after the 1972 Robert Wilson performance, Stockhausen climbed into his TARDIS and whizzed back to 1964 to compose the M-moments for MOMENTE, in the text for which he refers to himself as KA? Very ingenious.

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I feel that it could be useful to have a discussion-forum on the music of Stockhausen. There are so many people from all over the world, young and old, learned and eager to get into contact with this musical world: musicologists, composers, musicians, music lovers; people who plan concerts - who write books or have to give lectures and so on. So there should be much stuff, many ideas that we can share. And when we have open questions, there may be people who studied just that and could give a hint or a stimulus. A problem might be the English language, but i feel that is the only possibility that many people who are interested can participate. And we can exercise tolerance to mistakes! Thomas Ulrich
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