As today we mark the 15th anniversary of Stockhausen's death, I reflect (as I especially like to do this day every year) how much we have to be grateful for in his musical legacy. As much and all as I can love and admire the work of other great composers, I still know of no composer, before, during, or after Stockhausen's life, who created such a rich store of innovation and perpetually new ideas as he did. In really all his works, from the early pieces of the 1950s through to the final pieces in KLANG, Stockhausen was always exploring something new. Even in LICHT, with all its unity of structure through the Superformula, every part explores a new idea, and applies the structure of the Superformula in a different way and creates musical theatre that breaks new ground: unity and diversity over 29 hours of music, composed over 26 years!! That is so amazing! There is always something new to discover, to learn, and to tell people about. I am sure that many people, like me, wonder what Stockhausen would have composed next if he had continued to live - what might the final three pieces of KLANG been? What might he have done with his idea to also compose music for each minute of the hour, and then for each second of the minute? I regret that we we will never know - but then I remind myself that he already gave us so much. I hope I never lose sight of how much we have to thank Karlheinz Stockhausen for.
Thank you so much, Ellen, for this. It was great to read your overview of the performance and your thoughts about it. I would so much have loved to have been there - but, unfortunately, travel to Europe is now very difficult for me, so I can only dream that one day I will get back again. This time three years ago I was in Paris for DONNERSTAG aus LICHT. I very much hope to one day, somehow, somewhere, see FREITAG too.
It is interesting that you ask about the oice that calls out 'Eva! Unserer Kinder!' in Act Two. I have always thought it was Michael's voice, because the score specifies a tenor. Others have disagreed with this and suggested it is the voice of Adam. They may be right, although maybe ultimately it is not so important: but, whoever's voice it is, I think it is important to hear it!
The pictures of the production look wonderful. I think La Balcon have so far done very well with productions that were originally planned as quasi-concert performances, but have in fact almost become full stagings. It is so good to see the operas being performed at last!
Thanks for those insights regarding SACD Al. I thought (but I may well be wrong on this) that the SACD playback would allow full quadraphonic surround sound, and therefore proper spatialisation of the four orchestras and choirs (presuming it's played back over four speakers, obviously). I think some of my other SACDs do this, but I may have remembered that incorrectly and, in any case, I don't have the SACD equipment so it's not an issue for me anyway. I do wish, however, that it was possible to hear more of Stockhausen's music at least in 4-channel surround sound, such as through DVD-audio - but, of course, the costs of producing this would be huge.
Anyway, I will be keen to hear your thoughts on this recording when you have been able to hear it.
As I am sure many of you are already aware, a new recording of CARRÉ has recently been released on Coviello Classics, with Chorwerk Ruhr and Bochumer Symphoniker. I was just wondering if many of you have heard it, and what your thoughts are.
I find it a tremendous recording and would especially love to hear it on SACD equipment, as it is an SACD hybrid release. But even on regular stereo playback equipment it comes across as a vibrant, focused, and very precise recording (although I have to admit, even after many attempts, I find it hard to follow with the score, which is issued as four separate scores for each choir/orchestra grouping).
While I have huge respect musically for the Verlag Stockhausen Complete Edition recording, I find that version rather dull sonically, but this new recording, for me, gives the piece a whole new zest and life and sense of space, which I hope will win over many more people to this brilliant work which has, I think, been far too rarely appreciated or even heard.
Thank you Ellen for sharing these thoughts with us about SIRIUS in Kürten. I have heard a few reports now and everyone found it to be an amazing experience. I was so disappointed that I could not be there this year.
SIRIUS is such a wonderful work. It is the story of the stars, and of what we read in the stars about ourselves, and there is really no other piece of music like it. I hope that it might have been recorded and ultimately be released commercially. The existing recording from the Stockhausen-Verlag is of course wonderful, but there is always room for more!
Thank you again for sharing your thoughts with us!
One of the things that the documentary reminded me was how little Pierre Audi knew about LICHT when he came to direct it. I thought some of his comments about LICHT and about the role that musicians and singers can play on stage were very naive. I acknowledge his skills as a stage director but also, I believe, the real success of Aus LICHT was more because of the huge amount of work put into the rehearsals, for almost two years, by Kathinka Pasveer and also by Suzanne Stephens-Janning. I had the privilege of witnessing some of the these rehearsals. The extremely hard work of everyone involved - the students, the professionals musicians, and the teachers at the Conservatorium in Den Haag, plus of course the remarkable talent and spirit of the performers, is what really made Aus LICHt such a great artistic achievement (in my opinion). I would have loved to have heard more of that story told.
At first I had a lot of trouble viewing this in Australia but have now, at last, been able to watch the entire documentary. It really is a fascinating film, although very different from what I was expecting and seems to really mainly be a documentary about the Stockhausen family dynamics with the references to the Aus LICHT project more or less as a background.
I was a little disappointed in this. I know many of the musicians involved in the production and rehearsals were interviewed but only the smallest proportion of these were included, and, although there was some footage of the rehearsals and final performances, these seemed almost incidental to the main focus of the documentary.
I am always a little torn in my thoughts about these intense examinations of a composer's personal life (or that of any artist). We are naturally curious about family dynamics and especially when these are unconventional or have included conflict: but sometimes I also think this curiosity is a little too close to voyeurism, and this worries me. I would be interested in others' thoughts on this.
As usual, when I hear Mary Bauermeister speak, I am fascinated by her thoughts on art and on the development of new art and new music in the twentieth century. I thought the interviews with her were especially fascinating.
But I would have loved to have seen more of the Aus LICHT project which, I think, whatever criticisms one might have of some of its processes and decisions that the Aus LICHT project involved, was still an extraordinary achievement artistically and I am sorry that this documentary does not tell us more about it.
I very much hope the planned DVD of the full production is released soon.
Thank you Georg for this review of the performances in Essen! I hope we continue to see more and more of these - thoughtful stagings of the works, which can both be loyal to the deep richness of ideas that Stockhausen composed into his music as well as bringing new creativity and life to the staging - not altering what is in the score, but finding ever-new ways to see it and understand it. As Stockhausen once said of his music: every new composition should do something new and expand consciousness. I think this can also be true of every new performance and staging, while still retaining Werktreue.
This is just a quick message to say a huge thank you to Ellen for taking over the administration of this forum. It is still such a great place to share our reflections on, and ideas about, Stockhausen's music and to spread news about performances and recordings and such. I think I might re-join the forum under my correct name - it always felt a little funny using 'ipar1306', which meant nothing to anyone. I don't think I can change that, but I can rejoin with a new profile. Look forward to talking with you all some more!
Thanks for your thoughts Thomas. I thought it was possible to archive a Forum such as this, so it can still be searched on the Internet, even though it might no longer be active - but I really don't know if that is easy, or even possible, to do. I just thought it would be a shame to lose so many years of discussion and reflections. This forum is, I think, a really useful historical resource.
It does trouble me that people are today become more and more inclined to listen only to mainstream music, as you say, and only to music that is cheap and easy to access. This to me, though,is only all the more reason why it is good to maintain some sort of platform online where better music can be discussed and where people can maintain connections with one another to share ideas and to stimulate thinking and engagement. This of course does not mean you have to be the one to do this - and I totally understand that you might not wish to become involved with Facebook.
I do agree that nothing is as good as live contact - but even when we don't have lockdown, live contact is not always possible for everyone, and at least the internet provides more opportunities to connect. It does not replace live contact, but it can, I think, supplement it.
I will continue to think about the possibility of starting a Facebook group, and will also discuss this with the Stiftung.
Meanwhile, Thomas, again my thanks to you for this forum. It has been a wonderful resource for so long.
I do understand you decision to close down the forum Thomas, given the slow participation on it. It is sad, though, because you have done such a great job in moderating this forum over the years and I know I, and many others, have found it to be a great place for discussion many times.
Maybe the problem is simply that people are tending to use different platforms now for these sorts of discussions and so maybe there is some value in setting up a Stockhausen appreciation page on Facebook. There are similar pages for Boulez (and of course many other composers) and they are quite active. I will give some thought to this and maybe involve some others who I know would be keen to see a continuation of the lively discussion and sharing of information that you so wonderfully and kindly enabled over the years of this forum.
It is an unfortunate but true thing, I think, that we have become a fickle world in the platforms we turn to in order to connect and share ideas about the things that are important to us. It can be hard to keep up, and even harder to keep shifting to, and building up momentum in, new places.
I do hope, however, that the content of this forum will not be lost. I still find myself returning to older discussions now and then.
Whatever your final decision is, Thomas, can I please offer you my really sincere thanks for all your time and work in maintaining this forum for so long. It has been such a great place to go. The decline in participation is not because what you do here has lost its relevance, but simply because of the changing ways people use the internet to connect.
I hadn't had a chance to check out the section you referred to, but I'm glad her approach is growing on you. I think her interpretation, more than anyone else, has been able both to find the poetry in the music and to cope seemingly effortlessly with the technical demands. I think Kontarsky is wonderful, but I just prefer Ellen Corver. I can listen to her recordings over and over again, and it always sounds so new and fresh.
If you ever get a chance to get her recording of MANTRA (with Sepp Grotenhuis, on TMD) then I think you would be very thrilled with that. Unfortunately, it's no longer in catalogues, so it can be hard to find - but it could be worth contacting the Stockhausen Foundation and asking them if they have any copies available, which they sometimes do. I think this was also Stockhausen's preferred recording of MANTRA but there were some contract issues that prevented it being released on the Verlag label (I think - I've forgotten the full details). It really is a masterpiece recording of a masterpiece work!
I have heard Ellen Corver give lectures about MANTRA and have watched her teaching it to other musicians. Her love of, and respect for, the music is always so palpable.
Well I can only give my own reviews, which is that they are all excellent, and that's quite a nice mix to be getting next.
11 (PROZESSION and CEYLON) are of course works where the performers play a very significant role in realising the score - the plus/minus symbols in PROZESSION; and CEYLON is from the second set of text-based intuitive music although, in its case, there is also a very detailed notated rhythm as well. They are both stellar performances, involving Stockhausen himself and musicians who he trusted and who knew what he was trying to achieve, so really great examples of this highly experimental phase of Stockhausen's writing.
CD 83 is magnificent - HIMMELFAHRT is the first part of KLANG and I find it utterly absorbing. It seems absurdly difficult to play to me, but then I don't have any of the talent of Antonio Perez Abellan who plays the keyboard part on that recording, where left and right hand are playing in different tempi. It is really an exciting and appropriately uplifting work, even ecstatic. The singers are magnificent.
And 106 is the 2003 version of MIXTUR, by which time Stockhausen had made many revisions to the original score. I never tire of that recording - the timbres in the orchestra, achieved through the ring modulation, are just astonishing but, of course, Stockhausen integrates it so well into the music that it is never gimmicky, which this sort of thing so easily could be in the hands of a lesser composer.
I feel a little common now, because 3 was the first I bought (along with 6), many years ago. It does not surprise me at al that 9 and 10 would also be very popular, for all the reasons already noted. Not long after buying 3 and 6, I bought 1 and 2, and then just decided to spend all my savings at the time and by the whole lot.
For me, one of the continually amazing things about Stockhausen's music is how he was always developing and exploring new ideas - still more so, I think, than any other composer. So there is such diversity across his entire oeuvre that different works can and do appeal to vastly different musical interests and, for that reason, I would have found it very hard to guess what would be the most popular.
I think the only sensible thing to do is buy everything, even if it means selling a few body parts to do so.
For me, the Corver version is the one that seems to have all the good things you hear in the others, and more. She plays with such poetry, such musicality, but also with such strength and muscularity where it is needed. For me, she is the one, more than anyone else, who brings out the life of the music together with the astonishing sense of structure and form that Stockhausen wrote into each piece. Her love and respect for the music comes across at every point, every bar. It has taken me a lot longer to get to like Liebner's performances, but I think that may well be because of the slow tempi she typically uses and this was so different from what I had come to know and expect that it was hard to hear them on their own terms. But, once I can put my own expectations aside, I do find, as you suggest, a certain poetry there that is very characteristic of her playing, and brings a special type of magic to her version. But I do think, ultimately, you will also find that poetry in Corver. I know the cost can be daunting, but it's really well worth saving for!! These pieces of Stockhausen are so full of ideas and, well, of music, that they can, I believe, not only accommodate different approaches but really be illuminated by them. I envy the person receiving your gift!
I presume many of the people who participate in or read this forum will already be aware of the sad and sudden passing of Jerome Kohl very recently, but I thought I would just mention it here in case some have not heard this very sad news.
Jerry has of course been a longtime contributor to this forum and, as one of the world's most respected musicologists, especially on Stockhausen's music, his contribution to Stockhausen scholarship and to an understanding of his music has been utterly remarkable. He has curated the Stockhausen entries on Wikipedia, written extensively on Stockhausen's music in journals and books, played major roles in the translation of articles and writings by others, including by Stockhausen himself, and has always generously and kindly shared his thoughts and knowledge with anyone who approached him with a question.
He was a lovely man and I am sure the whole Stockhausen community is deeply saddened to hear that he has gone. But it is also a wonderful and happy thing that we have his insights and knowledge still with us, and the memories of his soft, gentle humour and his kind, giving personality still continuing to warm us.
I love Kontarsky too - but I don't think you would regret having both,and especially as Ellen Corver's set also includes XII, XIII, and XIV! For me Ellen brings a special, unique balance of poetry and power to her playing.
I feel that it could be useful to have a discussion-forum on the music of Stockhausen.
There are so many people from all over the world, young and old, learned and eager to get into contact with this musical world:
musicologists, composers, musicians, music lovers; people who plan concerts, who write books or have to give lectures and so on.
So there should be much stuff, many ideas that we can share. And when we have open questions, there may be people who studied just that and could give a hint or a stimulus. Thomas Ulrich