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uatu Offline




Posts: 161

Sat Jan 17, 2015 4:28 pm
LUZIFERS TANZ (Lucifer's Dance) reply

This is probably one of the most FUN Stockhausen orchestral works. It's like avant-garde satanic Cab Calloway (in the Betty Boop cartoon). My next analysis will be solo piano tho (tired blurry eyes looking at 37 staff lines on each manuscript page....)

http://stockhausenspace.blogspot.com/2015/01/luzifers-tanz.html

Joe Offline



Posts: 103

Sat Jan 17, 2015 10:03 pm
#2 RE: LUZIFERS TANZ (Lucifer's Dance) reply

Check out Trans sometime and see if you still feel that way.

Couple of corrections, "Kathinka" is a misleading indication for the flutist. Also, the Oberlippentanz score specifically says not to drink anything for 4 hours before the performance to avoid having to empty the water. (The fact that drinking water has little to do with the amount of condensation in the horn is immaterial).

ipar1306 Offline



Posts: 139

Sun Jan 18, 2015 2:45 am
#3 RE: LUZIFERS TANZ (Lucifer's Dance) reply

Nonetheless, the score for LUZIFERs TANZ does include directions about when to empty water (at two points). Maybe the direction to not drink beforehand was added later when the separate score for OBERLIPPENTANZ was published? Also, I note that in the score the piccolo-flautist is referred to as "the back cat from LUZIFERs REQUIEM" who, in that score, is referred to as KATHINKA.

Joe Offline



Posts: 103

Sun Jan 18, 2015 5:48 pm
#4 RE: LUZIFERS TANZ (Lucifer's Dance) reply

Stockhausen has ample opportunity to refer to the black cat as Kathinka in the score for Luzifers Tanz, but he does not. It is incumbent upon the interpreter to ask why this is the case. These kinds of subtle shifts happen throughout Licht, and when they do, attention must be paid to them. It is just as salient a detail as a transposition of the formula or a change in color. To simply assume the character is Kathinka is to ignore the strong signals that Stockhausen sends that she is changed somehow.

I could riff endlessly on this issue, but just for starters, in Luzifers Requiem, we know that the music is intended to help any spirit. Stockhausen specifically prescribes the music for any human soul that has departed its body. So, the black cat Kathinka in that piece could be considered a non-partisan actor. Theoretically, if we are to believe Stockhausen's indication, she could help any of us with the transition to the next life.

When the black cat next appears on the tip of the tongue, she is clearly aligned with Lucifer. She has abandoned all neutrality. The Kat-Think-A label is no longer accurate for this character, though it is inhabited by the same performer. This is exactly the kind of shift within an onstage performer's identity that happens throughout Licht.

Is it wrong to say the black cat is Kathinka in Luzifers Tanz? I think so, but this is a mild error, because there is so much room for debate. That's why I simply say it is misleading, because calling the character Kathinka whitewashes over a great deal of meaning embedded in the opera.

The spit valve issue is just one of countless instances where the individual scores contain information that the full scores do not. That's why it's so important to consult them all. Although, as I said, NOT on this particular issue! Because, seriously, the amount of water you drink has nothing to do with the amount of water that condenses in your horn during a performance. This is an instance where an explicit instruction can be ignored.

uatu Offline




Posts: 161

Sun Jan 18, 2015 6:31 pm
#5 RE: LUZIFERS TANZ (Lucifer's Dance) reply

I just received a long distance phone call from Stockhausen (currently hostelling in the Nebadon district of Sirius) and he told me that I shouldn't change my text.

James Offline




Posts: 72

Sun Jan 18, 2015 7:30 pm
#6 RE: LUZIFERS TANZ (Lucifer's Dance) reply

Such a great concerto for orchestra for the large wind band & percussion, and some beautiful solos .. one of his best works .. it should be performed standalone more often, minus the theatrics. That works. Can't stand Trans.

uatu Offline




Posts: 161

Sun Jan 18, 2015 10:55 pm
#7 RE: LUZIFERS TANZ (Lucifer's Dance) reply

I have some thoughts about Trans but I'll save them for when I finish my post on that piece. One thing I'll mention now tho, I do feel sorry for those orchestra members behind the curtain. It must be a bit demoralizing to be hidden on stage!

ipar1306 Offline



Posts: 139

Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:03 am
#8 RE: LUZIFERS TANZ (Lucifer's Dance) reply

I know we're getting off topic here with TRANS - but have you heard the live recording of the world premiere? A few very vocally unhappy members of the audience at the end!

uatu Offline




Posts: 161

Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:17 pm
#9 RE: LUZIFERS TANZ (Lucifer's Dance) reply

Yeah, for some reason Stockhausen has always been most "boo-ed" in his home country. He also got the worst reviews there. But I like how he characterizes that 1st recording in the booklet as "the 'hot' atmosphere of a Stockhausen premiere". Good sense of humor!

Thatfabulousalien Offline




Posts: 7

Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:05 pm
#10 RE: LUZIFERS TANZ (Lucifer's Dance) reply

My favorite opera scene of all time, and favorite pieces of music taken separately. Luzifers Tanz has everything! I've wanted the score of this piece for so long

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I feel that it could be useful to have a discussion-forum on the music of Stockhausen. There are so many people from all over the world, young and old, learned and eager to get into contact with this musical world: musicologists, composers, musicians, music lovers; people who plan concerts - who write books or have to give lectures and so on. So there should be much stuff, many ideas that we can share. And when we have open questions, there may be people who studied just that and could give a hint or a stimulus. A problem might be the English language, but i feel that is the only possibility that many people who are interested can participate. And we can exercise tolerance to mistakes! Thomas Ulrich
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