You're not registered yet. Click here to register. Credits 
Karlheinz Stockhausen - a platform to discuss his works, to anounce forthcoming concerts and to review them.
You can register here for free.
This topic has 12 replies
and has been read 812 times
 General Items
pages 1 | 2
Christian Offline



Posts: 123

Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:40 pm
Stockhausen and other composers of his time reply

Adorján suggested to open this thread. Et voilà...
Perhaps the new volumes of TEXTE will give some answers to the question about the relationship between Stockhausen and other composers. One thing one can certainly say: Some composers (Riehm, Ligeti) took a big distance after Stockhausen's remarks about 9/11. So perhaps we should discuss here not only how Stockhausen saw other composers but also how they saw him.

Adorján Offline



Posts: 57

Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:12 pm
#2 RE: Stockhausen and other composers of his time reply

Thank you, dear Christian! I shall gather a few remarks about composers by Stockhausen (and also some by others on him). It is interesting how mutual or one-sided influences can be present regardless of personal/musical like or dislike.

Jerry Offline



Posts: 145

Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:23 pm
#3 RE: Stockhausen and other composers of his time reply

While looking forward to your collection of quotations, Adorján, I would like to make a clarification about the time in 1996 when Stockhausen asked me to name a few computer-music composers whose work I thought worthwhile. This of course does not in any way mean that Stockhausen was looking for ideas to borrow, or even that he had any hope of finding delight himself in listening to music that I might recommend. My only point was to give an example of Stockhausen taking an interest in the work of other composers. At about that same time, he told me that he received several packages every week containing CDs or cassettes of music by young composers, asking for his opinion and advice. If he had listened to them all, even just once each, LICHT would never have been written. I do know that occasionally he would comply, and those composers must have felt grateful to receive his opinions. This of course does not concern the main thrust of this new thread, but nevertheless is something to think about before jumping to the conclusion that Stockhausen never listened to other composers' music.

James Offline




Posts: 72

Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:09 am
#4 RE: Stockhausen and other composers of his time reply

I think in his formative years he explored contemporaries and older music more, he was more open .. and as his star rose as a composer etc., he became progressively more focused & concentrated on his 'own thing' and he had little time for other music. He always struck me as a very single minded kind-of guy.

Jerry Offline



Posts: 145

Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:20 am
#5 RE: Stockhausen and other composers of his time reply

James, of course you are describing the usual case for just about any composer. As a student, of course models need to be found and tried out. When we look at Stockhausen's earliest efforts, such as the DREI LIEDER or the SONATINE, we can scarcely fail to notice whole passages that could almost be quotations from Hindemith, Bartók, Stravinsky, or Schoenberg. As a composer "finds his voice," such influences become better assimilated and are often difficult or impossible to detect. Indeed, it is also a matter of developing self-confidence. Also, from a historical perspective, by the twentieth century a very high premium is placed on originality (think for example of the eighteenth century, when Bach felt no embarrassment at borrowing from Vivaldi, or Händel from Corelli), so that it becomes second nature to conceal any such influences and, moreover, to deny them in public statements if challenged. This is especially true for composer after the middle of the century. Consequently, I find it more surprising that in Stockhausen's later works there are often very obvious (though usually fleeting) references to composers or styles of earlier periods (for example, the "Gypsy violin" solo in ORCHESTER-FINALISTEN, recalling the two Violin Rhapsodies of Bartók, or the jazz-bass solo in the same piece). Perhaps we will eventually find more recent, and therefore less familiar stylistic elements that have been there all the time, but have simply gone unnoticed, but I suspect that Stockhausen's homages are mainly to composers of the relatively distant past.

James Offline




Posts: 72

Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:51 am
#6 RE: Stockhausen and other composers of his time reply

Some folks say that Stockhausen became an increasingly closed circuit, and it was hard to break him free of that. Boulez for instance, who knew KS for a long time often said that he eventually couldn't talk to KS about the character of his music like the in old days. Saying that it was like confronting a wall - KS believed he was right about anything & everything and no one could tell him otherwise.

Jerry Offline



Posts: 145

Tue Apr 08, 2014 3:27 am
#7 RE: Stockhausen and other composers of his time reply

Hmm. That sounds very like another composer from the same era. The name is right on the tip of my tongue . . .

Christian Offline



Posts: 123

Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:30 am
#8 RE: Stockhausen and other composers of his time reply

Perhaps it's the wrong place here but I like to mention that Stockhausen certainly thought that the contemporary Techno music is bullshit - but to be called "Papa Techno" pleased him anyway ;-)...

James Offline




Posts: 72

Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:03 pm
#9 RE: Stockhausen and other composers of his time reply

I think KS thought all popular music was essentially bullshit. And yea .. I know what he said about John Lennon.

Son Markus Stockhausen said that his Dad had no interest in music outside of his own, including what Markus was doing.

Recently Lachenmann said something similar, though he admired KS, he said KS believed he was the only composer on the planet that mattered.

Christian Offline



Posts: 123

Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:32 pm
#10 RE: Stockhausen and other composers of his time reply

What James said brought me to the idea to open a new thraed about Stockhausen and his children...
In the BBC report "Music Masters: Karlheinz Stockhausen" by Charles Hazlewood (which used to be on Youtube but does'nt seem to be any more) Stockhausen talks about Boulez: He says that he liked the "fresh", young Boulez and his early works but one by one he lost completely interest in his works because they are "too artificial, too dry and only half of the world". He also says they have remained very friedly with each other "but as a composer he doesn't speak to me".

pages 1 | 2
 Jump  
I feel that it could be useful to have a discussion-forum on the music of Stockhausen. There are so many people from all over the world, young and old, learned and eager to get into contact with this musical world: musicologists, composers, musicians, music lovers; people who plan concerts - who write books or have to give lectures and so on. So there should be much stuff, many ideas that we can share. And when we have open questions, there may be people who studied just that and could give a hint or a stimulus. A problem might be the English language, but i feel that is the only possibility that many people who are interested can participate. And we can exercise tolerance to mistakes! Thomas Ulrich
Xobor Xobor Community Software